INTERVIEW: Why lawmakers leave NASS broke despite earning N450 million in four years

Adejoro Adeogun, a former member of the House of Representatives for Akoko South West/ East Federal Constituency of Ondo State from 2019 to 2023, sat down with PREMIUM TIMES’ Managing Editor, Idris Akinbajo, and House of Representatives correspondent, Bakare Majeed, to discuss his time in the House, the politics of Ondo State, the cost of elections and other issues.

PT: What do you miss most about the House of Representatives?

Mr Adeogun: Absolutely nothing. I didn’t miss anything. I’m actually having a ball, being a private citizen, being a father to my children, and being able to recover from what I almost missed. I almost missed the best time of the growth of my children. I mean, when you have kids going through teenage issues, which is when they need a father most, I think, I was absent and it kind of affected my relationship with my kids. So I’m having to go backward now trying to recover what I almost lost and be a fantastic father to my kids. So I am not missing anything.

PT: It does sound as if you regret going into public office.

Mr Adeogun: No, I would not say that I regret it. No, I did not because I had the opportunity to serve my people or to do a lot of things I would not have ordinarily been able to do in terms of getting jobs for a lot of young people. There are a lot of people who would not ordinarily be unemployed today that have through my intervention been able to catch up. There are some infrastructure developments in my area that you know, were because of my efforts. And there were interventions I made as a legislator within the national space and National Assembly that I think today, a landmark achievement for which, you know, I’ll forever be grateful to God for the opportunity. So I have no regrets.

PT: The community you represented in Ondo State, do you think they are satisfied with your four years as their representative in Abuja?

Mr Adeogun: Let me borrow words from someone I used to work with that a masquerade does not see its back. When a masquerade is dancing, it does not see its back. The only thing you could do is probably listen to the sound of the spectators to see if they were clapping and if they were not clapping. If the sound I heard while I was holding the office and the feedback I am getting is to go back, I think they actually thought I did exceedingly well.

PT: How much did you earn in your four years in the House?

Mr Adeogun: First, national lawmakers are not paid quarterly allowance, they get paid monthly. And secondly, as a private citizen today, I earn more income than I was earning from the House of Reps and then my responsibilities are like 10 per cent of what it was. As a lawmaker, I was borrowing money every month to meet with obligations, with responsibilities. Maybe because I have a good heart or because of my level of humaneness. I couldn’t afford to say ‘no’ to people who come to me when they have problems and then the fact that I had about 80-something aides that I paid monthly. So at the beginning of every month, half of what I earn is gone from the day it’s earned. So I have also always borrowed funds from my business. So now, whatever I get from my business, is for my well-being, for my family and my kids, they’re happy for it.

PT: If the cost of staying in public office is that high, why then do politicians spend hundreds of millions to get into the National Assembly?

Mr Adeogun: You see, you have to understand this, there’s something called legitimate income – and I come from a background where your legitimate income is earned. I was trained. I was educated to understand that I should be able to manage my income. So I wasn’t looking for excesses. I’m not saying that people aren’t doing it, so if there are people who are making money, I don’t know how they are making it. But then, if you are dealing with the income that accrues to a legislator in Nigeria, it’s a pittance. It is not enough to get anything done. You know, comparatively to what citizens earn, it’s a lot but then you have to look at the responsibilities of a lawmaker. In 2019, when I ran for the first House of Reps, I spent about roughly N300 million to N350 million. Now you ask why I did it. I felt challenged. I felt my community was insulted. For me, it was a fight. I wanted to show them that someone could rise and take them on or fight them to a stupor, and I knew that I had to do everything possible to win and I won. For me, that was a moral victory. I recall that the present governor was seeking reelection, and then he came to make peace with us. That is what I’ve always wanted.

PT: Why

Mr Adeogun: I’m from Akoko South West and I had a request for only one thing, come and apologise to my community.

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PT: What was his (Rotimi Akeredolu) offence?

Mr Adeogun: One week after my election, for some reason, a crisis happened because of the election, and then policemen were sent to the community and they killed people. Now in anger, I think the governor now decreed that there was a 24-hour curfew on the community. Which one is 24-hour curfew and is there war? The order was that two or more people must not be seen together going to fetch water in a community where the majority of households fetch water from wells or streams. To fetch water from a well, you need to be two, minimum. Now, a lot more people died because of that because people couldn’t go to the well. So it was more like you know – more of a political war to make the community suffer for whatever error they made in supporting their son. And for me, I felt that the community was cheated, and then it’s more likely over time. Before then, imagine coming from a community in which nobody in the community is fit enough to be respected. So it was more like how I was asked to come and help to show that we too, we have competent people. So for me, you know, getting into politics was more like you know, to rectify the deliberate war and I was ready to sacrifice myself for that.

PT: I find it interesting that you admitted that you spent over N300 million on your first election. And you talked about income from being a lawmaker very little. But our understanding is that apart from the monthly salary that lawmakers get, you also get office running costs. How much on average do you get monthly?

Mr Adeogun: You see, I’m gonna tell you this. for four years I received N450 million, total in four years. So now, when you look at the fact that you know, I had about 86 aides, and I have to pay them monthly, I have to pay traditional rulers, you have other stakeholders you have to pay. So at the end of every month, like I said, from the day I get paid at least five to six million naira is gone. And then when I look at other obligations, I was spending an average of N16 to N20 million a month, whereas the total income, salary everything, was less than nine million naira. So you find out you’re spending twice what you’re earning. That is the reality. And I’m not just speaking for me. I can tell you that most legislators that are in the House of Reps, even the ones that are stingy, maybe because they didn’t have the kind of cautioning that I have. Some will borrow money, some borrow from the week they are elected into the National Assembly, and they take loans. I mean, if you have been elected into the House, bankers will come to you and offer you a N200 to N300 million loan, and then you will find out that all the entire tenure you’re serving and there’s nothing left.

PT: Did you take any of those loans?

Mr Adeogun: I didn’t have a need for it. I mean, when I was approached by bankers, I told them I had more financial intelligence than people who were approaching me. I had better things to do with money and then I had excess naira and I was looking to invest and not to take loans.

PT: So if you look at what you just told us, on average, you got about N9 million monthly, that’s perhaps what all the teachers in your community together earn in a month. Don’t you think it’d be better, for example, for lawmakers to be paid like teachers? Everybody knows……

Mr Adeogun: If we can make the cost of getting elected as a lawmaker, as cheap as getting employed as a teacher, if people don’t have to invest in becoming a lawmaker, then you can. You see, in business this is simple. There must be risks and returns. Nobody’s gonna get elected and spend N300 million to earn N10 million. And I can assure you, nobody would agree to be a legislator if all they have to do is earn nothing and throw money away. It would be like throwing money down the drain. People wouldn’t do it and you won’t get the best. We’re looking to get the best out of us to go into public office. We need to encourage them. I recall there was something that happened, I think it was the Obasanjo government. How did he get Okonjo-Iweala? How did he get El-Rufai? He got a lot of people that they were paid in dollars. Why? Because he felt like these were the best of us, we needed to entice them. We need to do the same thing if we are trying to get the best into the National Assembly and offices. Entice them with the right wages. Take away corruption, you must entice them with the right wages, with the right resources to make what you’re asking them to do commensurate with the service they’ll render. If you ask someone to come and earn N10; if he knows that he’d be investing more than N10, he will be looking for other means to make up and that’s where corruption comes in.

PT: But do you feel that despite this money paid to the members of the National Assembly, we have our best as legislators?

Mr Adeogun: Okay, you need to understand how Parliament works in other places because the first thing for us to know is that democracy is borrowed and we must learn from the places where it was borrowed. In the United States, for instance, legislators, the reason they have unlimited tenure is for them to acquire experience. If you come into any legislative assembly, you’re going to spend the first two years learning the ropes because it takes a while to understand the rudiments of lawmaking. Now with the Nigerian system, you use two years to learn, you use one year to get the job done and then the next year to contest an election, which means you practically have official legislators for one year, which is the reason we should as a rule encourage longevity. I mean, the present chief of staff to the President was effective. Why? He spent about 20 years, he had time to learn, he cruised through the process, and he became a master. That’s what we should do. People grew with it. I mean, somebody was having a good laugh and said a former prime minister (of Britain) is going to become a foreign secretary. Why? Because in the United Kingdom, you cannot be a prime minister if you’re not a member of parliament, and when you leave, you can still remain a member of parliament because the experience is vital. There is a need to build the experience. It’s not just about getting away from the street. But unfortunately, you know, the way the political parties in Nigeria are run does not create efficiency. A lot of things are done at the whims and caprices of the leaders. If you become governor, you suddenly become the god of your state. And if you decide that you don’t like this person, you look for someone who’s not so smart to take the place. So people are not allowed to assess the capacity of their elected, it is rather what the leaders want. So it’s, you know, those are the processes we need to change to start creating efficiency, getting people to learn. You can’t become the managing director of a bank overnight. You learn through the ropes, you go through several departments.

PT: I know that the longest-serving House of Rep member, Nicholas Motu, has been around since 1999 and I have been covering the National Assembly for seven years, I can tell you that I’ve not seen him up to three times. So we have situations whereby those who become Senate presidents automatically see themselves as too big to even participate in…

Mr Adeogun: I don’t know if you weren’t seeing Nicholas on the floor of the House, but I have the advantage of having known Nicholas since about 2000 when I was working in Rivers State. And I know that since the 9th assembly, he was an effective legislator. You see, you have to understand that the legislature sometimes is not just what happens inside the chambers. There’s a lot done in committee, and he was Chairman of the Committee on Gas and he was a very effective chairperson. So, I can speak for him because I know him and I know there are so many other people that are effective. The issue is you have what they call the institution memory. It is the older people who serve as the institution’s memory. Now we have the 10th Assembly, I can tell you that as of now, 90 per cent of new members don’t know Jack and should you give them responsibilities they will not know what to do. They would do it but not as effectively as certainly as an excellent parliamentarian would deliver. They will deliver but then because we are not doing things rightly, we have lowered the power and standard such that we are not getting the mileage we should get from having an effective parliament.

PT: So, you are saying that if lawmakers spend longer time in parliament, they will then get experience which the nation can benefit from in different ways. But an average Nigerian would argue that the longer they spend, the more corrupt they become, because then they understand the various systems of making money in the system. I mean, we’ve done investigations that show lawmakers essentially collecting money. Farouk Lawan is in prison in Kuje because he headed a committee that essentially was making money from people he was supposed to investigate. And we’ve done a recent report about another member of the House of Reps, Oluwole Oke, and others who essentially were chairing committees to make money rackets. So if people who are experienced now use those experiences to essentially make illicit money as we have seen with clear examples, will these people be worth it?

Mr Adeogun: You see, you are making an assumption. You mentioned two people. You see, those are allegations. You are making allegations. Apart from Farouk, any other allegation is unproven and we have to be careful. I don’t want us to have a public trial of someone who has not been convicted, it will be unfair to the person and it will be uncharitable. Let’s restrict ourselves to Farouk. Farouk’s case, he was an anomaly, he wasn’t normal. The truth is that I know hundreds of legislators who will not collect peanuts from anybody. I headed a committee. I mean I remember someone said to me, ‘You’re busy losing weight, your mates are growing fat.’ I was challenged, I was told that. Do you know the kind of harassment I faced? Even from the agencies that we investigated, I knew what was done. Truth is I already had a business before I went into public office. I already had resources and as a legislator, I was not making an extra penny aside from the institution. I wasn’t. But I was earning an income because I’d already invested long ago. When they did the investigation and found out that this one, every penny that enters you could trace it. It’s either coming from MTN or coming from others… you could trace the source of my income. There are a lot of people like that.

PT: So do you think you are the norm or the exemption, considering even the experience you just narrated because people coming to tell you that your colleagues are growing fat and you are growing lean? Do you really think you are the norm or exception to the rule when we talk about corruption?

Mr Adeogun: I am not in a place to judge because we have 360 members. I know the ones I relate with and I know that there are a lot of them….I can tell you I know hundreds of members who were elected, some are even returning, I know people who couldn’t return to the 10th assembly, who today can’t even afford to fuel their cars. There are a lot of people…. You see, you have to understand because you were mentioning committees, committees, committees. How many committees do we have? How many chairmen do we have? How many graded committees are available where you could at least get help here and there? It’s not as rosy as it’s painted. There are 100, 200, 250 members who can barely make ends meet because of their obligations. The ones that are not as independent-minded as myself, would probably earn their pay and submit it to the chairman of the party at the end of their tenure. The ones who have godfathers, they submit all their resources to the godfather. The ones who got sponsors, the ones who took loans to get elected, they have to repay it. You see, the bottom line is that the system is not right, and we need to actually do something to salvage this. We need a reform, a reform in terms of funding of the election process, in terms of actually asking, what is the cost of electing legislators? We need to reduce it. We need to actually strengthen legislators because one thing I’ve found about Nigerians is that we see the legislators as our enemies. There’s so much focus on earning so much money. How much does the executive earn? You see, I’d like to use the Yoruba adage. There is a difference between a man who shares meat with his teeth and a man who shares with a knife. The legislator shares with the knife, and the executive shares with the teeth. You don’t know what gets swallowed

PT: In as much as we like the analogy, which is powerful, but the legislators you know, have the responsibility of check and balance. And that is why there is a whole lot of scrutiny on them. You are not just anybody, you have the power to investigate, to probe, and it brings me……..

Mr Adeogun: Before we go there, I would like you to understand something. If I’m supposed to check another person, and I invite the person to see me and you the citizens who were supposed to support me to do my job, fight me for doing my job, don’t you think that would discourage me? And that’s what happens most of the time. When the legislators invite members of the executive, the executive resorts to public trial. It happened with a present minister of the federation (Festus Keyamo) when he was…

PT: ..the labour ministry

Mr Adeogun: Yes! He was invited, he refused and then started painting the National Assembly bad. And what did he get? The legislators didn’t get sympathy. But he was wrong. Don’t forget that people who are legislators are human. When you’re fighting for the people and at the end of the day, you know, the people you’re fighting for are the ones bullying you, you may not stop it totally. But you found out that it makes you careful…. you’re more careful about the steps you take. It’s not everybody that’s as bold as myself. Like I have nothing to lose. But lots of people have a lot to lose and they won’t take risks.

PT: I’m trying to get to your committee. I covered your committee extensively, week after week and that is why there’s a lot of scepticism when it comes to National Assembly and investigation. What’s the status of the report of your committee?

Mr Adeogun: You need to understand one thing about investigation. What can the National Assembly do with an investigation? The reports you submitted, they cannot be published.

PT: Why not?

Mr Adeogun: Parliamentary reports that are not published for public consumption. And investigative reporting at best would make recommendations to the executive, just as we did within the legislative security summit. There was a recommendation to the executive submitted to the president for him to implement. Don’t forget that the National Assembly cannot prosecute anybody. In our case, we’re talking about money being recovered and I was managing. Who are you going to talk to?

PT: But let me ask these questions. What time did you submit your report? Or did you submit the report?

Mr Adeogun: It was submitted before we left the House, it was even submitted twice.

PT: Was it considered by the Committee of the Whole?

Mr Adeogun: I can’t recall but I think so.

PT: But this is why people don’t trust your investigations?

Mr Adeogun: There are some things you need to understand in a parliament. And that’s where you have the issue of collaboration between the executive and the legislature. You see, in the past, there was this lesson that each time the legislative arm tried to be confrontational, the citizens lose because, at the end of the day, there would be synergy. And then the ninth assembly, what was done was a kind of collective effort. What can be solved in-house should be solved in-house. You can call the executive and tell them to get this done without creating any crisis. And you are aware there were so many instances which, you know, there were interventions at some point a lot of people just felt that the House of Reps was doing more than they should do because at some point we were actually delving into executive issues, stopping strikes, intervening in you, know, certain crisis. Security issues, especially when things get to this point, the need to be right may not be as good as a need to bring some level of sanity. And I think the decision was taken that at this point in time, let’s save Nigeria and that was the decision.

PT: With the strategy adopted by the House “collective effort and collaboration”, can we say the Ninth National Assembly should get the blame for some of the things that happened under the last administration?

Mr Adeogun: I need you to understand one thing. When I use the word collaboration, I said in certain instances. When they needed to salvage the nation, we weighed the need to be right. You have to understand that sometimes in a bid to be right, you may push a sinking ship to sink in that instance, you’d be like let’s stop being right, let us salvage this country. Like you said, there were a lot of things that were not perfect with the past government and there were instances where we felt like look, we can’t pretend that we are not members of the government, Let’s salvage this country and decisions were taken to salvage this country. You were mentioning issues like Ways and Means, how many of them were known at the time? You have to understand that the National Assembly can fully operate to the limit of information available to it. It wasn’t everything that was done by the executive that was known to the legislators. What was brought was by the end of the day, a lot of Ways and Means things were brought after the elections for approval. There were loans that had been spent and then they now brought them forward. Now what do you do in such an instance in a country that’s already suffering dislocation? Just like let’s get this done. You know, in my place, sometimes when you have an elephant in a China shop, your job is not to ask what the elephant is doing here, it is to find a way to shepherd the elephant out to salvage the situation. And I think that’s what we did.

PT: But it’s interesting for you to say that. A lot of the times when the CBN was essentially manipulating the books for the government, it was public knowledge. Premium Times wrote several editorials, several, not one, not twice, way before the final bill was brought by the Buhari administration.

Mr Adeogun: I am sure that were there so many times that the National Assembly invited the then-governor of CBN (Godwin Emefiele) and he refused to show up. There were so many times that efforts were made to even issue a bench warrant for him and at the end of it, you know people will come…. With my committee…. There were situations where people came and we were like look, if we take this actually, if we continue to make this communication, there would be crisis in the banking sector. it happened with one of the banks and you know, something was published overnight and people were like look, you’re going to stop, you’re gonna kill this country. The moment it happens to this bank, they will start financial structural adjustment and then people will be afraid to put their money in banks. So now as an individual, I’m going to have to sit down and say okay, is it the right thing to do? I need to save this other institution. In handling this, we will save this other institution, what it requires, let’s do it. And I can assure you, it happened at the National Assembly. Situations, especially with CBN, which we are like okay, this is the number one financial institution of your country. This is like they say, the banker to your government. Do you go out and say that the CBN is reckless? if we start saying that we’re telling the world that, hey! don’t do business with us. You must be careful what you are spreading, and what language you’re using to describe an institution. A lot of things were done internally to salvage the situation, and to try to help create some measure of sanity.

PT: Let’s go to your home state, Ondo State. What’s happening in Ondo State? What’s your understanding of the governance or misgovernance going on in the state?

Mr Adeogun: Well, do I know what is happening in Ondo State? The answer will be no. The reason is everything that I know is what’s in the public domain – what I read in the newspapers. We all know that the governor has been out of the state for six months, but even before then, he’s been having health issues and may God help him. But the constitution provides for such a situation in the absence of a governor, power goes to his deputy governor. But unfortunately, there’s a breakdown of communication between the two and a loss of confidence between the two. And so you find out that where two elephants who should take care of the rein of a state are fighting, the grass is suffering because there’s nobody to look after the grass. After all, there’s nobody to water the grass and there’s nobody to mow the grass. That’s what in my understanding of what is happening in my state

PT: Do you think the House of Assembly is ready to take action in terms of declaring Mr Akeredolu incapacitated?

Mr Adeogun: When people mention incapacitation, you mostly understand the constitutional provision, it is not the Assembly that can declare incapacitation, which is the responsibility of the executive council. They have to vote for it. They have to get the medical board.

PT: We are going there and why I said we are going there is because at the national level, we had this kind of situation where a president could have been deemed to be incapacitated. I’m talking about this late Umaru Yar’Adua. Several people pushed the National Assembly to come up with the Doctrine of Necessity. Why is everyone quiet?

Mr Adeogun: Unfortunately, you know, in a bid to be moral, to be sympathetic, the greater interest of the state is suffering. So, I think you know, the other side, which I said there are two sides, is that there are a lot of people who have come to say like okay, it is almost over, in another few months, there are going to be primaries of the party. In any case, and when you have primaries within the state, the focus will be on the election and all that. So why are we fighting now when there’s a bigger fight upfront? I think you know, you have to look at that and so, those are things that have accounted for what is the seeming invisibility of the leaders in the state.